Café name is a slur on regiment, say veterans
10:09am Monday 14th June 2010
ARMED Forces veterans have slammed a new Winchester café saying its name is an insult to their fallen comrades.
They are angry the Falling Plates Café has opened its doors at their historic regimental home, calling it a “slap in the face” and “an insult to the memory of the dead”.
The former Royal Green Jackets (RGJ) soldiers say Falling Plates is a derogatory nickname for heavy casualties suffered in Northern Ireland, Iraq and Afghanistan.
The ex-soldiers say the term — which refers to the stationary targets at a shooting range — is disrespectful to those who have given their lives for their country.
A 221-strong Facebook group is demanding the café, at Peninsula Barracks, changes its name before up to 3,000 ex-Green Jackets flood into the city for a reunion on July 10.
Winchester-based Sean Wheeler, who served with RGJ, now The Rifles, from 1989-95, said: “They [RGJ veterans] are very angry about it, the nickname has caused a lot of fights in the past.
“I don’t think we’re being oversensitive — it’s disrespectful to the Green Jackets.”
The 38-year-old, of Romsey Road, added: “They lost men and it’s disrespectful to their families.
“She’s a German lady (the owner) and she put the café’s name through the museum.
“I’d have thought the people in the museum would have a bit more sense than to okay this.”
Tony Cotton, 47, who served with RGJ from 1983-89, said: “I don’t know whether it’s a big mistake or a provocation.”
Steve Barrett, who toured Northern Ireland with the regiment in the 1970s, said: “I’ve seen so many fights about this nickname.
To have this put on our old barracks is like a slap in the face.”
But Lt Col John Poole-Warren, chairman of the Royal Green Jackets Association, denied it was a derogatory term and said it was named after a military shooting competition.
“The name was chosen by an exregimental sergeant-major who works in the RGJ museum in Winchester,”
“I don’t think there’s any reason for the name to be changed.”
Annette Bergen, café owner, said: “I did not mean to cause any offence, I chose the name in good faith and I chose it after running it past people at the museum.
“If I had known it was controversial I would not have chosen it.
“In the foreseeable future I have no intention of changing the name, we have had many positive comments and only two that have been negative.”
Miss Bergen, originally from Germany, opened the café in April.
It came less than a year after she co-founded Leaf & Bean in Fulflood with Daniel Mills.
But she struck out on her own after deciding that business was not big enough for two.
What do you think? Leave your comments below.
titchrgj, ng16 says…
4:12pm Mon 14 Jun 10
People of winchester please read this, the Officer and RSM would have known about this one incident years ago and this made National press at the time.We are not about shutting the cafe just a name change. If you go onto our site you can read more comments and new names for Annette this was post on the site for a ex RGJ. I can remember clearly one incident where the use of the slagging term ” falling plates” was clearly directed to 1rgj in fermanagh in 1987, when on the first day of his arrival l/cpl tom hewitt on patrol in advanced party taking over from marines was shot in the head from across the border in beleek by an ira sniper.Later that evening when 1rgj visited the naafi,the marines had placed a figure 11 target up and written on it ,greenjackets take it in the head,falling plates.There was lots of fighting between these units and serious injuries inflicted upon some,the trouble lasted days and progressed as the rest of the company arrived,this incident made the national newspapers and was the reason why helmets then become worn as compulsary,this still lingers and is hurtful in my memory ,other comrades memories who remember,this alone to me justifys enough reason why the cafe called by this name should be renamed,. i cannot believe there is such a cafe with this name in such a place,what a travesty to the memories of the fallen heroes,i am totally disgusted and can only say ,something should be done to rectify this ,any genuine ex greenjacket knows his history and would have some knowledge of this term being used in memory,so if a comrade in arms of the same rgj has no knowledge of this,i can only assume he has been locked away in the cupboard under the stairs for many years.To a greenjacket it would be like calling the sky green,now lets rally around this boys and have our voices heard in memory of those who are now unable to speak. People of winchester please read this, the Officer and RSM would have known about this one incident years ago and this made National press at the time.We are not about shutting the cafe just a name change. If you go onto our site you can read more comments and new names for Annette this was post on the site for a ex RGJ. I can remember clearly one incident where the use of the slagging term ” falling plates” was clearly directed to 1rgj in fermanagh in 1987, when on the first day of his arrival l/cpl tom hewitt on patrol in advanced party taking over from marines was shot in the head from across the border in beleek by an ira sniper.Later that evening when 1rgj visited the naafi,the marines had placed a figure 11 target up and written on it ,greenjackets take it in the head,falling plates.There was lots of fighting between these units and serious injuries inflicted upon some,the trouble lasted days and progressed as the rest of the company arrived,this incident made the national newspapers and was the reason why helmets then become worn as compulsary,this still lingers and is hurtful in my memory ,other comrades memories who remember,this alone to me justifys enough reason why the cafe called by this name should be renamed,. i cannot believe there is such a cafe with this name in such a place,what a travesty to the memories of the fallen heroes,i am totally disgusted and can only say ,something should be done to rectify this ,any genuine ex greenjacket knows his history and would have some knowledge of this term being used in memory,so if a comrade in arms of the same rgj has no knowledge of this,i can only assume he has been locked away in the cupboard under the stairs for many years.To a greenjacket it would be like calling the sky green,now lets rally around this boys and have our voices heard in memory of those who are now unable to speak.
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
6:01pm Mon 14 Jun 10
THIS IS WHY WE WANT THE NAME FALLING PLATES CHANGED Hi Steve, As you know the origin of falling plates, you could explain it to the press, as far as the stigma that has been placed not only on us, the Royal Green jackets, but Green Howards, in the early 70s in Northern Ireland the Gre…en Howards lost a few good soldiers trying to keep the peace out there, it was a diffi…cult job to do at the best of times, but other members of the Armed Forces thought it was funny thus giving them the name, ” Falling Plates “, which to me is an insult to the memory of those who lo
st their lives out there. regards John THIS IS WHY WE WANT THE NAME FALLING PLATES CHANGED Hi Steve, As you know the origin of falling plates, you could explain it to the press, as far as the stigma that has been placed not only on us, the Royal Green jackets, but Green Howards, in the early 70s in Northern Ireland the Gre…en Howards lost a few good soldiers trying to keep the peace out there, it was a diffi…cult job to do at the best of times, but other members of the Armed Forces thought it was funny thus giving them the name, ” Falling Plates “, which to me is an insult to the memory of those who lost their lives out there. regards John
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
7:15pm Mon 14 Jun 10
This is from Tony cotton shown on our site. Annette, i hope you read this,we no you didnt mean to upset anyone,it was a mistake,the powers that be are more to blame for telling you it was ok.change the name and u’ll make a whole regiment of friends and iam sure we’ll invite you to our reunion.you can see how the blokes are upset.you can make the guys happy,you hold… the key.we do understand its hassell for you but it’ll be worth it .its not just a storm in a teacupSee More
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
1:25pm Tue 15 Jun 10
These are comments left on our Face Book Group Site, Dear Annette, can I ask you please to rethink the name of the cafe, it’s only a name but the one you have chosen is making so many people unhappy. I’m sure you can find a compromise that will suit everyone.
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
1:31pm Tue 15 Jun 10
This Comment is from a ex RGJ on our Face Book Group Site , I have had a long hard think about this one not only is it disrespectful to name anything military this. (regardless weather their green jackets or green howards they are all fallen hero brothers) it just goes to show what the bureaucratic people really think of the soldiers past and present. (DEAD OR ALIVE)there are more comments on our site please join our Group
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
1:39pm Tue 15 Jun 10
This Comment from Gary Best on our Face Book Site, They obviously have no respect for those who are brave enough to step up to the mark and lay their lives on the line for their country.
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
1:53pm Tue 15 Jun 10
This Comment is from a ex RGJ on our Face Book Group. Thought I’d heard the last of that saying in the 70′s. Tony Mayers.
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
2:29pm Thu 17 Jun 10
This Comment From Philp Morrison on our group pages: The comment was also used in s amagh in 1981 where 1 rgj lost 5 in a bombing and deano in a shooting rip guys !!!!!!!!
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
8:45pm Thu 17 Jun 10
This Comment was left on our group site by NoHandsignals: It goes back a long way, it was a bad nick name given to the all the RGJ for the amount of fellow rifleman killed in NI. The regiments that called us this name where the ones that had only one battalion and did NI tours once every couple of years. We had Battalions serving in NI from 1969 to 92. When we became The Rifles,:Please support our cause!!!!!
chronreader, winchester says…
3:48pm Sat 19 Jun 10
titchrgj of nottinghamshire – you made your point in your first message.
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
6:07pm Sat 19 Jun 10
chron reader, winchester, if you took your time to read them all im just putting stuff on from our site of what others are saying, you are more than welcome to come and see more comments on there.
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
8:30pm Sat 19 Jun 10
This Comment was left on our Face Book site by Bob Ross, I have just read Lt.Col.John Poole-Warrens comment in the Hampshire Chronicle saying he did not think that ‘Falling plates’ was derogatory.It just shows how out of touch he is with the feelings of Riflemen,and he is meant to be the Chairman of our association.Wake up man!
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
8:30pm Sat 19 Jun 10
This Comment was left on our Face Book site by Bob Ross, I have just read Lt.Col.John Poole-Warrens comment in the Hampshire Chronicle saying he did not think that ‘Falling plates’ was derogatory.It just shows how out of touch he is with the feelings of Riflemen,and he is meant to be the Chairman of our association.Wake up man!
titchrgj, nottinghamshire says…
6:45pm Sun 20 Jun 10
This Comment by Len Readle left on our Face Book Site; Typical Diplomatic ****
If he or the other turds there can’t see it, then they aint true black n greens
This was the standard attempted insult thrown at us so many times back in the day, caused many a punch up.
I think in this day and age a visit will not work, a letter referring her to the posts here, but better, a letter explaining the support against this name, then the news paper, if not.. well then early July it is
This Comment by Len Readle left on our Face Book Site; Typical Diplomatic ****If he or the other turds there can’t see it, then they aint true black n greensThis was the standard attempted insult thrown at us so many times back in the day, caused many a punch up.I think in this day and age a visit will not work, a letter referring her to the posts here, but better, a letter explaining the support against this name, then the news paper, if not.. well then early July it is
2 RGJ Recce, St Albans says…
1:53pm Mon 21 Jun 10
I can’t believe that this has got to go as far as it has, the Regimental Museum should know better, anyone who says that they believed it as not being a derogatory term are either lying or completely out of touch with The Royal Green Jackets, EVERY ex Green Jacket I know sees this name as an insult, it’s time something was done before the reunion in July because quite frankly I can see trouble coming.
tellkevv, Oxford says…
9:40am Tue 22 Jun 10
The cafe would have been a natural magnet to all ex members of the regiment revisiting Winchester myself included and it will still be but for all the wrong reasons now.
A little commonsense should have been applied and a more suitable name chosen given the buildings history, a name such as “The old Guardroom Cafe” “The Green Jacket Cafe” “The Peninsula Cafe” or even a little more obscure “The Imber Clump” any of these would have been better than “The Falling Plates”.
I originally trained in Winchester in 1972 and returned there in 1980 where I spent another 6 very happy years, I still think of Winchester as my second home and it saddens me to see that commonsense has not been applied when naming this cafe, as Green Jackets we are normally much better than this,
The cafe would have been a natural magnet to all ex members of the regiment revisiting Winchester myself included and it will still be but for all the wrong reasons now. A little commonsense should have been applied and a more suitable name chosen given the buildings history, a name such as “The old Guardroom Cafe” “The Green Jacket Cafe” “The Peninsula Cafe” or even a little more obscure “The Imber Clump” any of these would have been better than “The Falling Plates”. I originally trained in Winchester in 1972 and returned there in 1980 where I spent another 6 very happy years, I still think of Winchester as my second home and it saddens me to see that commonsense has not been applied when naming this cafe, as Green Jackets we are normally much better than this,Kevin Stevens Oxford
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